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 Post subject: revert marine hp nerf
PostPosted: July 14th, 2021, 7:30 pm 
lumina.1600

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marines are a core unit in the game. raiden comes in and reduces hp by 40%? did you ever test this change? the only unit that is literally used in every single fight that happens in the game should be the hardest one to tweak, and you come in and reduce by forty fucking percent.

please dont let people with no game knowledge be devs. eu is a completely different game from us.

imagine a dev for league of legends moved over to dota dev team and the first thing they changed is minion hp to be 40% less...

not that i play much anymore, but this kills any desire i could have in the future to play again


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PostPosted: July 14th, 2021, 7:58 pm 
TopRahman.1898

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     lumina1 wrote:
marines are a core unit in the game. raiden comes in and reduces hp by 40%? did you ever test this change? the only unit that is literally used in every single fight that happens in the game should be the hardest one to tweak, and you come in and reduce by forty fucking percent.

please dont let people with no game knowledge be devs. eu is a completely different game from us.

imagine a dev for league of legends moved over to dota dev team and the first thing they changed is minion hp to be 40% less...

not that i play much anymore, but this kills any desire i could have in the future to play again


Yeah, i agree, marine hp should be reverted. Best part about this is that raiden took Darkness' consideration because he got pummeled by marines the most. Thank you for coming to the TEDTalk.


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PostPosted: July 15th, 2021, 12:22 pm 
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Agreed a revert would make the game feel complete it fills like there is a hole in the game because of the nerf.


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PostPosted: July 15th, 2021, 5:43 pm 
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Raiden already gave back marines HP. They dont need more hp then they have now. The original marines before relic had only 45 HP. I know most of us havent played a lot of games with the changes yet, excpet for rahmen but thats just because he literally has no life or family, Guy literally has 10 game of sc every single day and is still too scared to talk on mic when his family is around because he doesnt want them to know he talks like a complete idiot. These new marines are much more balanced. I still see marines at SD every game so its not like they arent viable anymore, they just arent OP to where people are blind opening marines and getting top bounty.


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 1:39 am 
TopRahman.1898

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     SeexySauce wrote:
Raiden already gave back marines HP. They dont need more hp then they have now. The original marines before relic had only 45 HP. I know most of us havent played a lot of games with the changes yet, excpet for rahmen but thats just because he literally has no life or family, Guy literally has 10 game of sc every single day and is still too scared to talk on mic when his family is around because he doesnt want them to know he talks like a complete idiot. These new marines are much more balanced. I still see marines at SD every game so its not like they arent viable anymore, they just arent OP to where people are blind opening marines and getting top bounty.


This is rich coming from the guy that has respect from no one and starts muting and blocking people when you get roasted in voice hahhaa. The guy who almost everyone in the forums and discords think is retarded due to the amount of bullshit he says. Only a broken twig ass, basement sewer rat like you would think nerfing marine hp is good. Maybe next time pop your medication in so that you say something finally relevant and not have your head in your ass all the time little worthless cabbage brain. New marines arent balanced, they are shit like your mouth and family. What a fucking retard...


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 4:30 am 
lumina.1600

Joined: December 2nd, 2020, 6:13 pm
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new marines are not more balanced. marines were never broken.

blind opening marines is a bad opening and is very easy to execute. if people are getting top bounty opening with marines that means the rest of the lobby doesnt know how to play. kind of like 4 gate in regular sc2 - pretty easy to execute and quite strong for how easy it is, but also easy to stop if you know the game.


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 6:54 am 
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     TopRahman wrote:
     SeexySauce wrote:
Raiden already gave back marines HP. They dont need more hp then they have now. The original marines before relic had only 45 HP. I know most of us havent played a lot of games with the changes yet, excpet for rahmen but thats just because he literally has no life or family, Guy literally has 10 game of sc every single day and is still too scared to talk on mic when his family is around because he doesnt want them to know he talks like a complete idiot. These new marines are much more balanced. I still see marines at SD every game so its not like they arent viable anymore, they just arent OP to where people are blind opening marines and getting top bounty.


This is rich coming from the guy that has respect from no one and starts muting and blocking people when you get roasted in voice hahhaa. The guy who almost everyone in the forums and discords think is retarded due to the amount of bullshit he says. Only a broken twig ass, basement sewer rat like you would think nerfing marine hp is good. Maybe next time pop your medication in so that you say something finally relevant and not have your head in your ass all the time little worthless cabbage brain. New marines arent balanced, they are shit like your mouth and family. What a fucking retard...


Respect from no one huh? Lol that's funny coming from the guy whose only people like playing with him are ego and ifinial. Last i checked you have me muted and blocked topretard. Really need to work on your insults you literally sound like a kid in elementary school. Let me know when you finally get a life Mr. Twenty games a day. Honestly is so sad i pity you. I bet you have never even talked to a female in your life. Which makes sense tho, i saw that picture of you with your nerdy glasses. It looks like you struggle to lift up a pencil. Let me know when your family isn't embarrassed of you anymore and you can actually talk on your headset ok topretard? Last I recall the only thing you could every do was grief games so maybe leave the meta to people who actually can win MA, the only thing more shit then your MA skills is your life skills. One day i believe your daddy will make you get a job, im sure you will be sobbing but hang in there topretard.s


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 6:56 am 
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     lumina1 wrote:
new marines are not more balanced. marines were never broken.

blind opening marines is a bad opening and is very easy to execute. if people are getting top bounty opening with marines that means the rest of the lobby doesnt know how to play. kind of like 4 gate in regular sc2 - pretty easy to execute and quite strong for how easy it is, but also easy to stop if you know the game.



We had a mini tournament about a month ago, almost every game won was by a blind marine opener. This is with people who are pretty skilled so yes, marines were very much broken. They only have 10 hp less then previously, and they scale faster hp now then before so its really not a huge nerf. They are worse early and better midd to late. Which is exactly how they should be.


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 7:42 am 
GOAT.1503

Joined: August 1st, 2020, 12:00 pm
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     SeexySauce wrote:
     lumina1 wrote:
new marines are not more balanced. marines were never broken.

blind opening marines is a bad opening and is very easy to execute. if people are getting top bounty opening with marines that means the rest of the lobby doesnt know how to play. kind of like 4 gate in regular sc2 - pretty easy to execute and quite strong for how easy it is, but also easy to stop if you know the game.



We had a mini tournament about a month ago, almost every game won was by a blind marine opener. This is with people who are pretty skilled so yes, marines were very much broken. They only have 10 hp less then previously, and they scale faster hp now then before so its really not a huge nerf. They are worse early and better midd to late. Which is exactly how they should be.


That's because the teams weren't completely balanced on all sides. The people who went marines fed off the less experienced teams/players. Taking away viable marine starts and putting a hero timer only limits the number of viable starts in the game. You say people shouldn't be able to blind open marines yet all these changes have led to basically elite or stalker openings. Not much variety in games lately which makes scrims boring and lowers the overall skill cap. Also kinda weird how you said in voice that queen creep speed needs to be nerfed and then the next day it gets nerfed. You paying raiden or something lmao?


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 8:05 am 
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The scrim we had was full of diff picks what do you mean? There was tanks, fester, stalker, odin, ghost science vessel? Thats quite the variety? The way the game is right now is pretty well balanced. Look at the scores for the last scrim i was in, everyones bouonty was around the same at 10 mins, 20mins, and even close around 30. The game is NOT meant to be viable to marine openers early. It would not make sense to have the best late game unit, also be good early game. Other wise why would you not just open that every game. Scrims now have a lot more opportunity for builds now. Look at truth, the guy was stomping scrim, now marines are balanced hes back to just an average scrim player again. You cant argue the fact that marines were being blind picked every scrim and in the tournament and winning 90% of the time. They were OP even people after were admitting it. And right now marines are still used midd to late game so i honestly have no idea what the problem is.


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 10:25 am 
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In the tourney marines lost to lancer opening in semi finals and only did well paired up with an all in hero. Marines were not broken it was just the all in hero with marines allowed them to spiral like crazy. The down side to this strat is you have very little to no direct engagement power and if you lose a fight every minute you are not fighting is costing you a lot.

Nerfing queen unburrow and speed is actually exactly the opposite kind of nerf queen needed because it removes the entire skill cap to this hero it makes it way harder to play it as a high risk high reward hero which I think is very bad.

I really don’t understand why queen gets a nerf but HTA which nearly everyone says is busted doesn’t. I really am questioning where raiden is getting his feedback because all of the feedback I have provided seems too be ignored or not seen? Really strange.


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 11:55 am 
GOAT.1503

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     MicroJacksonMA wrote:
In the tourney marines lost to lancer opening in semi finals and only did well paired up with an all in hero. Marines were not broken it was just the all in hero with marines allowed them to spiral like crazy. The down side to this strat is you have very little to no direct engagement power and if you lose a fight every minute you are not fighting is costing you a lot.

Nerfing queen unburrow and speed is actually exactly the opposite kind of nerf queen needed because it removes the entire skill cap to this hero it makes it way harder to play it as a high risk high reward hero which I think is very bad.

I really don’t understand why queen gets a nerf but HTA which nearly everyone says is busted doesn’t. I really am questioning where raiden is getting his feedback because all of the feedback I have provided seems too be ignored or not seen? Really strange.


That's cause sexysauce is secret dev now


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 2:18 pm 
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That makes no sense why you and others would do marines every single scrim, and win. According to you all no one knows how to counter marines then. They were winning majority of games and being picked every game. Thats a fact, and if you have to play perfect in order to counter a marine player early game then how are pubs and the large majority of marine arena players who arent that great supposed to beat them. The only way to beat a marine user was to have 8 full teams of great players who know how to play against them other wise they snowball and win. How likely is it to even get a lobby with 4 great players? Its almost impossible now. Marines needed to be nerfed, and there is tons of information pointing it out.

Ht was nerfed, which was the big problem imo. HTA is in a good spot where its viable but not OP. Queen with its movement speed was insane, literally with vulture and creep you could not catch it. Not to mention it had the element of suprise because it could pop up and fungal and then book it back all before you have time to react. Many people were complaing with the marine nerfs that queen/fester was too strong.


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 3:34 pm 
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If we are going off of pubs being unable to counter a strategy every strategy in the game would have to be nerfed.

Marines were popular do to their mobility and how rewarding it felt to pounce on high value targets. However you did not need perfect play to counter them in fast it was really easy. The second you baited blink and didn’t lose your hero you would just smash the fight and trade much better. The more times it happened the more ahead you were till suddenly you could just crush them in even what seems to be a bad concave.


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 3:38 pm 
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I personally don’t understand why people expect that the counter to something means you can mindlessly a move into it and out trade it. A counter should mean that if both players micro at about the same level the counter will always win. Losing an HTA to marines 5 times in a row then complaining that marines are broken is just unhelpful and wrong.


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 3:58 pm 
lumina.1600

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If marine openings were indeed broken (theyre not) then the correct way to balance it would be to nerf stim, either by making it cost more or making it scale with upgrades so its not as strong early. This would nerf that specific strategy and not nerf the unit thats used in every single fight in the game regardless of if someone is using that strategy or not.

Nerfing a unit across the board due to one specific build that unit is used in is a very poor way of balancing and speaks to the incompetence of the person making such balance decisions.


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 4:39 pm 
lumina.1600

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in fact you could even nerf ling base armor from 2->1 and give it back when they become tanklings or cracklings, since the only viable build that opens with lings also happens to be a marine opener.


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 9:22 pm 
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Marines were being blind picked early and winning. There really isn't anything else to argue because thats facts. They were nerfed and they needed it badly. They are still a must have for late game, so i really don't see the problem.


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PostPosted: July 16th, 2021, 10:16 pm 
lumina.1600

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     SeexySauce wrote:
Marines were being blind picked early and winning. There really isn't anything else to argue because thats facts. They were nerfed and they needed it badly. They are still a must have for late game, so i really don't see the problem.



this is an incredibly short sighted response that honestly goes beyond just ma. i genuinely believe you have sub 90 iq simply due to this response.

you failed to address the argument that marines are a unit that is used everywhere, not just marine ling openers. if a certain strategy is too strong - and in this case it's honestly not - then a nerf should target that specific strategy, not the whole unit across the board.

marines were winning in those games because honestly everyone that knows how to play stopped playing. you now have these scrubs playing in "scrims" that think theyre good because the "best" player that play frequently these days are players who are also of similar skill to these b-tier and sometimes c-tier players. i heard they even banned hk - another unit that isnt even strong, and that just speaks to how little they know about the game.

back in the day i blind picked commando every game and it got nerfed like 4 times. I still blind picked it after the nerf, and after mostly everyone else stopped using it. And i still won most of the scrims i played in against players of much higher caliber than you see in your scrims these days. The commando that exists today is pretty pathetic - but at the tail end of when I played a lot i was still winning by blind picking the same version of commando. So i guess by your logic commando needs another 3-4 nerfs...


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PostPosted: July 18th, 2021, 8:35 am 
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It doesn't matter how the marines were winning. The fact is they were. People who are bad were picking them and making them look like they were good. Was literally the most noob thing in the game. Marines only lost 10 hp, thats literally 1 hp upgrade, and the scaling is better then before for them so there is a tiny window where they were worse then before.


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