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 Post subject: New change log update
PostPosted: February 22nd, 2018, 11:45 am 
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[EsYPsY] sexy.121
SeexySauce won a Tournament 3 times.

Joined: March 31st, 2014, 3:25 pm
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As always thanks Akash for patches.
My thoughts.

Marines: Currently they destroy everything including ultimates with just a few upgrades. Which I understand them being good vs Army but vs ultimates?

Suggestion: either Nerf marine scaling on anti hero damage or when blink is purchased decrease its anti hero damage. Reason being ultimates like queen and hta are suppose to counter, but melt to rines.

HK:akash has a really good idea for these so I'll let him edit in or post about them.

Roach: a mineral increase when killed will solve these guys

Elites:

DB:need an increase on scaling for its bomb or decrease on its CD so its used more, also a health buff.

Mini Thor: same as db, barrage should be able to be canceled with medi lift. Barrage needs to be on less of a CD(I'm OK if that requires you buying a upgrade to do so.)

Mother ship: upgrades currently do nothing. Id advise revising its ability's,maybe have vortex do a small amount of damage to vortexed units?

Sv: defensive shield badly need an increase on range. Currently it has to be right over the unit. And bio plague doesn't do enough damage. I would really like to see sv DM range be increased, then it would be super fun to play.

Mercs:
Destroyers: these are the only merc I think need a buff cuz they are never used even when map is packed with goli and snipers.

Warps: IMO they rape units and should be nerfed on halth and damage. Even with not a lot of ups.


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PostPosted: February 22nd, 2018, 9:09 pm 
Gardul.1228

Joined: August 30th, 2017, 11:34 am
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I believe Void Rays have too much health and/or too much dmg.. they tend to melt armies, even those that they supposedly are countered by. With just a few upgrades, these are devastating and with Nix chain-lift on heroes now, Odin is not a viable counter. Thanks Akash!


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PostPosted: February 23rd, 2018, 9:24 am 
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[EsYPsY] sexy.121
SeexySauce won a Tournament 3 times.

Joined: March 31st, 2014, 3:25 pm
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everything else I posted you guys agreed with then?


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PostPosted: February 23rd, 2018, 1:58 pm 
Fatalist.608

Joined: December 26th, 2015, 10:51 pm
Posts: 33
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Marine : I agree that marine rekt heros but late game only i guess.
Few armor up early just ruin marine players so hard since damage scale on marine is to tiny.

HK : i agree it needs nerf and akash will handle it.

Immortal : definetely need buff, no ones using it because its too slow, and less mobile, Defensive matrix is kinda a joke when it comes to pass 20 min (100 shield is nothing, and cd is like 30 s). Probably give it scaling based on hp ups if possible

Dess : ppl don't use it atm coz overcharge is broken.

roach : agree with sexy. another solution might be decrease splash or damage scale (2.5 per up is too much)

mini thor : one of trash elite that can't be saved

DW : became trash after barrage changed, can't farm anything with it. I know Akash wanted to make it a support unit but its useless since barrage splash is too small to give enemy ms and atk spd debuff. Either revert the update or give it more splash.
P.S normal atk on DW is trash as well (small damage, take years to land it. If you a move DW with your army it hardly do any dps since its atk lands on dead unit)


odin : nerf on AA. Air can't really do anything if there is odin in field, 1 shot kill bunch of air (20k lead is nothing on odin)

warp : kinda op if play with DT and maintain mass.

Melee : buff DD, beetle, cracks, reaver. There is always a reason why ppl don't play them. Hardly can see any of them in 50 games. DD, beetle, reaver used to rely on armor ups to counter marine but since marine has armor pen they became trash. Also too much risk to go melee when they don't really rekt range units even in good position and also can't do anything if there is air on field.

void : i kinda agree with gardul since void has massive scale on hp, but for now since air has like 1928379128 counters, this is not a problem for now.


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PostPosted: February 23rd, 2018, 2:59 pm 
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[EsYPsY] sexy.121
SeexySauce won a Tournament 3 times.

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seems me and fata have a lot of ideas that are the same.


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PostPosted: February 23rd, 2018, 3:22 pm 
Zealous.174
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Good constructive input!


I think infestor needs a slight buff. Maybe remove burrow animation and nerf it's fungal, banes across the board.


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PostPosted: February 23rd, 2018, 9:49 pm 
tylercm.1154

Joined: January 22nd, 2016, 7:34 am
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what about the banes no scaling with damage ups they still the same all game


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PostPosted: February 24th, 2018, 7:07 am 
Gardul.1228

Joined: August 30th, 2017, 11:34 am
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Put this on another thread talking about the BC, but I realized it belongs here as well. Copied as posted:

***SUGGESTION*** - Make Vikings counter BC better by scaling # of shots and dmg/shot with health and dmg ups respectively while in air-mode. To compensate their scaled effectiveness against heroes, slightly decrease the Heroic dmg. Vikings are a good unit that doesn't really help you deny Air, BC, Colo, or even Ravens all that well. They're better in ground-mode honestly. Make them a viable alternative to Air units and they'll be able to help deny the BC.


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PostPosted: February 24th, 2018, 7:19 am 
Fatalist.608

Joined: December 26th, 2015, 10:51 pm
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I disagree with gardul
viking is super good already, it is not countering bc and it is supposed to be.
Viking counters air (pretty good damage and long range, reasonable splash), raven (can easily kill and drain pdd in 1 shot), colo (not early but late game viking just rekt them),

IMO you are wrong in countering BC. corruptor counter BC pretty well. Or just get a ghost and emp BC and it becomes pretty much useless without yamato


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PostPosted: February 24th, 2018, 9:36 am 
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[EsYPsY] sexy.121
SeexySauce won a Tournament 3 times.

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I agree with fata, if you did what gardul suggest then viks would dominate. They already have long ass range


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PostPosted: February 25th, 2018, 3:16 am 
SomeDouche.929
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     SeexySauce wrote:
Sv: defensive shield badly need an increase on range. Currently it has to be right over the unit. And bio plague doesn't do enough damage. I would really like to see sv DM range be increased, then it would be super fun to play.


Agreed


     Fatalist wrote:
Marine : I agree that marine rekt heros but late game only i guess.
Few armor up early just ruin marine players so hard since damage scale on marine is to tiny.

HK : i agree it needs nerf and akash will handle it.

Immortal : definetely need buff, no ones using it because its too slow, and less mobile, Defensive matrix is kinda a joke when it comes to pass 20 min (100 shield is nothing, and cd is like 30 s). Probably give it scaling based on hp ups if possible

Dess : ppl don't use it atm coz overcharge is broken.

roach : agree with sexy. another solution might be decrease splash or damage scale (2.5 per up is too much)

mini thor : one of trash elite that can't be saved

DW : became trash after barrage changed, can't farm anything with it. I know Akash wanted to make it a support unit but its useless since barrage splash is too small to give enemy ms and atk spd debuff. Either revert the update or give it more splash.
P.S normal atk on DW is trash as well (small damage, take years to land it. If you a move DW with your army it hardly do any dps since its atk lands on dead unit)

Melee : buff DD, beetle, cracks, reaver. There is always a reason why ppl don't play them. Hardly can see any of them in 50 games. DD, beetle, reaver used to rely on armor ups to counter marine but since marine has armor pen they became trash. Also too much risk to go melee when they don't really rekt range units even in good position and also can't do anything if there is air on field.

void : i kinda agree with gardul since void has massive scale on hp, but for now since air has like 1928379128 counters, this is not a problem for now.


I agree with all of these points except the one about DW. Before, DW dps was too high imo, and honestly, I'd even prefer to have these dw (basically no dw) to the old ones. I think he should increase its support capabilities rather than revert to the pre-update dw.


     tylercm wrote:
what about the banes no scaling with damage ups they still the same all game


Pardon my frankness, but I think this is a terrible idea. Whether or not scaling needs to be tweaked is debatable (keeping a static damage would make it OP or UP depending on the stage of the game), and I don't know enough about the specifics to comment on this point.


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PostPosted: February 26th, 2018, 8:34 pm 
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[TryHrd] Akash.566
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Thanks for the constructive discussion guys, keep it up :D
Here are my thoughts on the stuff that was mentioned, the more important stuff is highlighted.

Marines:
Seems opinions are split on this. They are supposed to outscale everything lategame (including heroes), makes sense that marines are basically required during SD. Early game marine tech is always risky since it takes more money to get all their upgrades than it does to get an ultimate hero.

Heroes:
HK
Proposal coming soon, will make a separate thread for this.

Archon
Proposal coming soon, will make a separate thread for this.

Odin
I think it's in a good spot, especially compared to before. Anti-ground damage isn't OP, and anti-air damage scales consistently with levels. We can revisit if a lot of people think it needs changes.

Infestor
Still learning about animations, will see if I can apply any of that knowledge to improve its animation speed.

Elites:
DB
Thinking about decreasing bomb cooldown.

Minithor
Pretty difficult to fix this one, would like more opinions. I don't understand it's intended role: it's hard to use, and if you do land that stun, it sometimes means insta-death for whatever got hit (including heroes).

SV
Still thinking about this unit. We could increase DMAT range if most people like that idea. Irradiate has the potential to do tons of damage; bio-plague is awful, thinking of simply removing that.

Mothership
I don't really see any problems with it. Useful in the right situation.

BC
Don't see too many problems with it - it's intended to make you dodge yamato, using up your APM. It also gets punished heavily for using yamato from a vulnerable position. Currently bugged due to repair cancelling yamato, will fix. Lategame it can yamato quickly, but is also pretty easy to kill/deny as well. If anything, ravens are more OP since upgraded HSM hits so quickly (and you can do 2 at once to make it really hard to split).

Viking
I think this unit is already strong. Can deny almost any air elite lategame that isn't a BC. Pretty good vs nix as well.

Mercs:
Roach
Would like to hear more opinions on this. They seem strong but are they really OP? Since nobody goes beetle, seems to me like the return on investment is reduced after higher tier mercs start coming out.

Destroyers
Bugged because of cooldown, will fix.

Maraiders
Death sound is still terrible, will try to fix.

Warps
One of the few viable melee in a game that heavily favors ranged units. Workable with proper control and some luck. Not even close to OP imo.

Void Rays
Strong stats, but weakness is mobility. Try corruptor, since voids have high HP and are relatively slow to retreat.

Immortal
Will look into having shield scale with HP upgrades. Almost everyone agrees it needs a buff.

Melee
Great in pubs, useless in scrims. Would take a map re-design or a special unit to make melee viable in scrims. Someday I may revisit warp-prism, as I think that could help melee a lot. Or, there's always the tunnels idea...

----------

Other things that I'm planning for next:
-Fixing siege tank damage bug (if i can)
-Fixing minithor range vs air (for some reason it's like double what it should be)
-Fixing sniper/marine stim synergy (currently have to separately stim them)
-Fixing hydralisk merc buy tooltip
-Fixing burrowed queen not having a "Stop" command
-Fixing forcefields (they should not block reavers, and they should block brutalisks)


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PostPosted: February 27th, 2018, 1:22 am 
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Roman.586

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Minithor - reduce its stun duration and increase the stun aoe, maybe needs a new ability, find what everyone wants to use it for and design an ability to make it useful, or even give it an escape ability like a stim or even concussive shells, something that makes it a little more microable but not stupidly op

Melee - its always been an issue.

1. new Zergling morph or adding an ability to existing morphs - i always toyed around with the idea of cracklings or tanklings having a channelled ability while burrowed that makes them almost teleport, range goes up with merc upgraades not anything too extreme but just like invis units itll make people use scans to attempt to counter.

2. Also an melee elite merc that buffs surrounding melee units would be something really cool even if it can't do dmg

3. making all ranged mercs/elites/heroes do more reduced dmg to melee while also reducing melee mercs armour to balance it out

4. trying to balance hero abilities and elite mercs to not fuck melee so badly aswell.


I wanna introduce new heroes/elite mercs or even normal mercs to shake things up soooooooo much


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PostPosted: February 27th, 2018, 5:00 am 
Fatalist.608

Joined: December 26th, 2015, 10:51 pm
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Looks like you have tons of work to do Akash.

I'm just gonna add some of my opinion.

Bruta go throught FF = it's been ages and ppl just accept as it is (idk if JOSIN meant to do this way). I don't really see problem with that since bruta is kinda awful unless you are holding mid because it big collision size and slow mobility, also high supply.

Marine = I know this one is very sensitive one. Little tweak on it can be game breaking. But I still think marine needs some buff. These days no matter how well you upgrade marine and had such lead you can't beat air or even some well upgraded merces.

Suggestion = just remove armor penetration and revert back damage scale. As i always mentioned damage scale 0.5 per up is kinda useless when 1 hp up for merce gives like 20-28 hp. Evenmore if they decided to get some armor ups.
Imagine in late game marine hardly do more than 15 damage per atk put most of merce will have like 600 hp. And since damage is sooooo small, and most player will get armor up at some point, marine ONLY do damage with armor pen which is only half of its atk, which is 7.5 in this case. so it takes about 80++ hits to just kill 1 merce. How OP is that.


Archon = I don't see anything to change on this one atm. Pretty good damage which can be easily denied, typical high risk high return hero i guess.


Minithor = IMO problem with minithor is just mobility (i think it was just meant to be a tank unit). Just try to move forward and back with this unit and see how many years it takes to do so.
P.S barrage has good stun duration, but no one will leave unit inside the barrage AoE for 5 seconds before it lands (unless you use high lvl DT to VP or stun with spec etc)


roach = beetle is suck, so roach start is pretty big investment early. But for now it does well against every other start except hk IMO (just because HK outfarm roach evenmore).
suggestion = remove splash or reduce damage scale.


SV = agreed with giving some more range on DMAT. Bio-plague is just useless skill and probably better remove it.
Irradiate = i think it's on good position atm, since damage scale of Irradiate comes from HP up not damage so if you intend to snipe elite or heroes you have to give up damage up early, which is pretty bad to farm early in game.


sentry = give some more mp without elite up with same max mp after elite up.


Anti unit tower = idk if this is intended but storm almost does no damage even HT is teched. Yamato, seeker, pdd all scales per up but storm doesn't.


raven = can you fix auto turret placement? for now can't force place them on top of units (placing them will automatically command your units to move away).


Wraith = give some hp regen on it. since hit and run is crucial for air, but wraith can't do it well because it takes years to regen to full hp after few hit and run (muta has high regen outside combat, void/scout has half of hp as shield which regens real quick).


That's it for now, i will add up if can think of any


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PostPosted: February 27th, 2018, 1:46 pm 
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Regarding the marines..

I feel like marines might be in an okay spot right now. They feed pretty well early game, and are still game enders in the late game.

In regards to being bad vs air. Shouldn't they be bad vs air? Shouldn't the most expensive mercenary beat the starting spawn unit? It's my opinion that air should be a counter to marine builds. Marines by themselves should not beat a straight up fight with air, but mix in corruptors, elites, and heros and air suddenly doesn't seem so strong.


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PostPosted: February 28th, 2018, 3:44 am 
Fatalist.608

Joined: December 26th, 2015, 10:51 pm
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I know air should counter marine but thing is in late game when everyone has 20k bounty,
i had like 40k bounty, and had max dt with blink rine, still got rekt by a air player without any hero or elite.
he just stack up alot of hp and def and marines can't kill.
max supply only able to kill like 15-20 air, and this is what i say not reasonable


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PostPosted: February 28th, 2018, 4:32 am 
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[TryHrd] Akash.566
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Autoturret placement - will see what I can do. The LOTV update changed some properties of creep tumors and autoturrets, so this one might be pretty hard to fix.

AU Tower Storm - thought I fixed it already, will look at it again.

Wraith has HP regen once you get the training upgrades - this was recently added.

I'm still testing marines vs air. Very hesitant to make major changes to marines, since almost everything in the game is balanced around them. I'm considering a couple things to help marines in the extreme lategame, and this will hopefully also prevent games from going past 2-3 hours. Will make a proposal once I have a better understanding.


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PostPosted: February 28th, 2018, 7:10 pm 
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     Fatalist wrote:
I know air should counter marine but thing is in late game when everyone has 20k bounty,
i had like 40k bounty, and had max dt with blink rine, still got rekt by a air player without any hero or elite.
he just stack up alot of hp and def and marines can't kill.
max supply only able to kill like 15-20 air, and this is what i say not reasonable

that's the problem with the 0.5 dmg scaling on marines. stack hp and rines just need to hit more to kill high hp units.


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PostPosted: March 1st, 2018, 12:26 am 
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MicroJacksonMA won a Tournament 2 times.

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I think in order to fix HTA we need to remove the ability to cast spells of the units that are mind controlled. Today I played a scrim where my rines would get mind controlled then blink on my spec and kill it. I also think the duration is just to long it’s enough to kill any morph (maybe not DA with health) without blocking.


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