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 Post subject: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 20th, 2018, 5:31 pm 
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[EsYPsY] sexy.121
SeexySauce won a Tournament 3 times.

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Currently Spectre seems to be better anti unit then most heros, with it's 5 seconds stun, EMP that drains all shields, and nukes. Not to mention a powerfull lash that can kill anything a mile away.

Balance needed would be reduce the stun aoe, and effect time. Spectre already has EMP so why would it even need this abilities in the first place? It's supposed to be anti hero, not anti army.


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 20th, 2018, 5:58 pm 
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MicroJacksonMA won a Tournament 2 times.

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Come back when there are like 3 people using it in a single scrim.


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 20th, 2018, 6:20 pm 
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[TryHrd] Akash.566
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Has been brought up by a few people, I think it's the combination of 0.3 attack speed with high single-target damage, the splash it has on autoattack, and the HP which is as much as HTA/Queen.

A small nerf to these stats could possibly make it less useful vs armies but still good vs heroes, imo.

Edit: Micro, who uses spec pretty often, believes that shortening the stun time by a little bit would be a better change.


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 21st, 2018, 2:43 pm 
Gardul.1228

Joined: August 30th, 2017, 11:34 am
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Personally I think the unit is good as-is. I agree a shorter stun duration might make it less effective against armies, but overall it's pretty decent of a unit.

Think of all of the hard and soft counters to the unit:

Stun/disable with OS
Snipe and conc-grenade with mando
Emp with ghosts
Fungal and leech with festor
Void prism with DT/DA
Feedback with Tass/HTA
Lift with Phoenix
Root and Leech with Queen
Rag beam with Colo

These are all abilities that limit the Spec or outright have a chance to kill it (mando snipe is particularly effective since the Spec has the dreaded 'summoned' tag on it). With that many counters, it's not inconceivable to get units that effectively counter it.

We might want to leave spec alone.


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 22nd, 2018, 1:30 pm 
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[EsYPsY] sexy.121
SeexySauce won a Tournament 3 times.

Joined: March 31st, 2014, 3:25 pm
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You can counter pubs specs yes. But we are talking scrims where people actually know how to use it. Spec outranges almost everything you just said with it's ability, so that's how I know you have played someone good who uses spec


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 22nd, 2018, 7:56 pm 
[EzYzY] PANDA.474
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+1 about making it less effective vs armies but for heros it is fine .. if you know he has just do your best to move around it or stun it or something.. micro is very good at spec yes but i have killed it before with ht feedback and mando snipe so i do not think it is crazy op.. just have to keep an eye out for it .. also +1 for reducing stun time


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 22nd, 2018, 8:33 pm 
Gardul.1228

Joined: August 30th, 2017, 11:34 am
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     SeexySauce wrote:
You can counter pubs specs yes. But we are talking scrims where people actually know how to use it. Spec outranges almost everything you just said with it's ability, so that's how I know you have played someone good who uses spec


That doesn't mean you can't counter it with those things... I play in scrims and have played it and against it. It's a full blown PITA but really no worse than any other ultimate frankly. Heroes rampage in MA.. fully upgraded ones at least do.. always have.


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 23rd, 2018, 2:55 pm 
Fatalist.608

Joined: December 26th, 2015, 10:51 pm
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[quote="Gardul12"]Personally I think the unit is good as-is. I agree a shorter stun duration might make it less effective against armies, but overall it's pretty decent of a unit.

Think of all of the hard and soft counters to the unit:

Stun/disable with OS
Snipe and conc-grenade with mando
Emp with ghosts
Fungal and leech with festor
Void prism with DT/DA
Feedback with Tass/HTA
Lift with Phoenix
Root and Leech with Queen
Rag beam with Colo


If you want to say that way
why dont you counter void with:
Corruptor
raven
BC
HT
Queen
spec
odin
Viking

see? it doesnt make sense right


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 23rd, 2018, 9:29 pm 
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[EsYPsY] sexy.121
SeexySauce won a Tournament 3 times.

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Haha fata has a excellent point.


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 24th, 2018, 7:06 am 
Gardul.1228

Joined: August 30th, 2017, 11:34 am
Posts: 108
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Fata, you're comparing apples to oranges. Does Air have counters and soft-counters? Yes, and as an individual unit, the VR's soft-counters are not as effective against them as Spec's soft-counters are against it (IMO). Those counters/soft-counters you outlined ARE effective against the rest of the Air units - at least more so than against VRs. Again, apples to oranges.

FWIW, the original core argument was that Spec rampages against armies too much, and I have agreed that a stun duration reduction would be a good move, which was Seexy's original thought.


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 24th, 2018, 7:59 am 
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[EsYPsY] sexy.121
SeexySauce won a Tournament 3 times.

Joined: March 31st, 2014, 3:25 pm
Posts: 510
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It's not apples to oranges, what you don't realize is it's the exact same. Specs soft counters are not as effective neither are it'd hc, which idk what ever it is.

Trust me I won 2x tourney :p


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 24th, 2018, 8:54 am 
Donor
MicroJacksonMA won a Tournament 2 times.

Joined: June 27th, 2017, 10:44 pm
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Location: California
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     SeexySauce wrote:
It's not apples to oranges, what you don't realize is it's the exact same. Specs soft counters are not as effective neither are it'd hc, which idk what ever it is.

Trust me I won 2x tourney :p


Ok let me ask you a question Mr. 2x Tourney Winner :p. How come it is about the same difficulty to counter a 1.6k merc and a 5k+ Morph.


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 24th, 2018, 8:58 am 
Donor
[EsYPsY] sexy.121
SeexySauce won a Tournament 3 times.

Joined: March 31st, 2014, 3:25 pm
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X2 tourney winners don't respond to peasants, only to respond and say we don't respond lel.


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 24th, 2018, 9:11 am 
Donor
MicroJacksonMA won a Tournament 2 times.

Joined: June 27th, 2017, 10:44 pm
Posts: 251
Location: California
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Well I don't respond to people who let others play tourneys on there account


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 24th, 2018, 10:27 am 
Donor
[EsYPsY] sexy.121
SeexySauce won a Tournament 3 times.

Joined: March 31st, 2014, 3:25 pm
Posts: 510
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You just did tho....


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 24th, 2018, 12:05 pm 
Donor
MicroJacksonMA won a Tournament 2 times.

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Posts: 251
Location: California
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last tourney was like 2 years ago..... I did not participate either so [dunno]


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: April 29th, 2018, 4:45 pm 
Map Developer
[TryHrd] RememberMe.983
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     Fatalist wrote:
     Gardul12 wrote:
Personally I think the unit is good as-is. I agree a shorter stun duration might make it less effective against armies, but overall it's pretty decent of a unit.

Think of all of the hard and soft counters to the unit:

Stun/disable with OS
Snipe and conc-grenade with mando
Emp with ghosts
Fungal and leech with festor
Void prism with DT/DA
Feedback with Tass/HTA
Lift with Phoenix
Root and Leech with Queen
Rag beam with Colo


If you want to say that way
why dont you counter void with:
Corruptor
raven
BC
HT
Queen
spec
odin
Viking

see? it doesnt make sense right

I tried to counter voids with corruptor raven lancer viking dt festor OS and sentry and that didn't work either.

hmmmmmmmm


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: May 13th, 2018, 5:31 pm 
killer.661

Joined: January 10th, 2015, 4:03 am
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yea spec does need a nurf its has everything in its arsenal to deal with everything


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 Post subject: Re: Spectre balance
PostPosted: May 14th, 2018, 9:01 am 
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MicroJacksonMA won a Tournament 2 times.

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     wolf wrote:
yea spec does need a nurf its has everything in its arsenal to deal with everything


I think that is true but spectre is not very strong in many of the areas most of spec heavily relies on how your army is upped. Like for example the AOE, Nuke costs a lot of energy for what its worth it is possible to get a lucky nuke but is very unlikely in high level play. The only thing spectre can deal with AOE is air it cannot deal with most mercenaries easily. Like honestly if you are going against spectre don't counter the spec counter the army and it wont be able to do much.


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