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 Post subject: LURKER
PostPosted: September 17th, 2018, 10:40 am 
xXPhAZeXx.1234

Joined: January 11th, 2017, 11:03 am
Posts: 12
Starcraft II Gateway: United States
Fist post on here, have been watching threads for ages but never made account to comment. My in game is Fire and Phaze.

I am an avid Hk user and believe that, contrasting popular opinion, they are balanced. They are a big risk/reward unit but if played correctly have a huge payoff. The problem Ive always had with HKS is that they are severely underpowered late game.

The inclusion of the lurker evolution is a good one, the hks needed a late game upgrade for sure. My problem however, is that it is shit.

I don’t mean to say that it is objectively a bad unit, but when weighed against the other final forms of hero’s I.e. DA Spec Queen, It is incredibly underwhelming. There is little or no situation where lurker is better than dark archon or queen. I believe that every unit needs to have its specific purpose. DA is a crowd control tank. Spec is a hero control threat. Archon is a mix of both, as is queen. I would not chose lurker over any of these units by a long shot. Spec, I think, Is almost as good at getting feed as lurker.

I believe that the type of unit we are lacking in late game, Is a true harass unit. (I think of hks as harass - lurker is more of a siege unit - which has little place in marine arena - also, tiny amount of skill needed). I think that Hks morph should be a very fast, relatively tanky unit with a survivability skill. Not a tank skill, but something more along a blink, a speed boost, a spell immunity etc.

I think the best way to incorporate this kind of unit would be the make the final morph of hks an air unit. A Strong muta, broodlord or viper with right click. The actual implementation of this idea is unimportant of me. I just believe that as of now, the lurker is an uneccisary unit that has no real place in Marine Arena.

I would like to finish this post by saying that i mean no disrespect to its coders and creators. It is a wonderfully coded unit with little or no bugs I have seen, I just believe that the idea works in theory but not practice, you will be hard pressed to find a lurker in a scrimmage. I also believe a final evolution should strike fear into those who see the message pop on the screen, personally, when i see lurker, I feel relief that the HKS are gone.

This is the opinion of one man who loves marine arena and has faith in hks.

Lmk if any of you who play hk agree.


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 Post subject: Re: LURKER
PostPosted: September 18th, 2018, 10:44 am 
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MicroJacksonMA won a Tournament 2 times.

Joined: June 27th, 2017, 10:44 pm
Posts: 251
Location: California
Starcraft II Gateway: United States
I think lurker does deserve a buff. Maybe make it so it can use its ability while burrowed, on top of that also a damage/attack speed buff would be great.

Since you mentioned spectre I think you are confused about it (You probably remember the spectre a few months ago before it was nerfed to shit.) It is definitely the same at feeding as lurker or worse, though you are right that is not good since lurker's main idea was to be a glass cannon like a better version of hks.

I too would rather have hks than lurker since hks feed less if you kill them, they have a better attack speed and can kill more. You can also get another hero with them like a tassadar or a DT.


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 Post subject: Re: LURKER
PostPosted: September 18th, 2018, 11:00 am 
xXPhAZeXx.1234

Joined: January 11th, 2017, 11:03 am
Posts: 12
Starcraft II Gateway: United States
thanks for the response micro, and you are right, I forgot that you cant perma stun nuke with spec anymore.

Your post make me think a bit more about the lurker and I think making it faster would be a good idea also, it is extremely slow as of now and the whole burrow thing makes it so much different from the hks, you have to change your whole play style after buying it.

I think something that could be done would be to replace its stun ability with some sort of aoe, maybe it throws out a couple banelings or something, you could also make it spawn like those flying primal locust that blow up when they hit the ground


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 Post subject: Re: LURKER
PostPosted: September 18th, 2018, 11:10 am 
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MicroJacksonMA won a Tournament 2 times.

Joined: June 27th, 2017, 10:44 pm
Posts: 251
Location: California
Starcraft II Gateway: United States
     xXPhAZeXx wrote:
you could also make it spawn like those flying primal locust that blow up when they hit the ground


Yeah that sounds like a good idea maybe make it another ability on top of the stun? Like you stun then hit that then all the air gets killed but you have no energy left or something.


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 Post subject: Re: LURKER
PostPosted: September 18th, 2018, 11:34 am 
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[TryHrd] Akash.566
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Joined: August 8th, 2014, 1:14 pm
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As the creator/coder of the Lurker, I feel like I should clarify a few things:

1. The main idea with lurker is that it is not meant to be effective as an a-move unit. It has enough range to hit the enemy while it is under your army, but you get max value by being aggressive/sneaky with it - try attacking from directly under the opponent's army for crazy aoe damage (when they are not expecting it, ofc - this is part of the skill/micro required). You can also stun large groups of clumped/lined up units (especially air).

2. It is probably underpowered compared to the other ultimates, as I was being conservative when I made it - wanted to make it uncomplicated but bug-free. That said, I don't think it's to such an extent that spec outfeeds it.

3. I would suggest continuing to first make small changes, like speeding up the attack animation/move speed, before implementing more complicated abilities or effects.


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 Post subject: Re: LURKER
PostPosted: September 18th, 2018, 12:00 pm 
xXPhAZeXx.1234

Joined: January 11th, 2017, 11:03 am
Posts: 12
Starcraft II Gateway: United States
Regarding the clarification akash, I think that for it to fulfull its purpose I.e to be effective vs air and for it to be realistic to move under another players army, It has to be much more mobile. It would be extremely risky to put under another players army and require perfect positioning and forsight to stun a full air army

as of now, It is just extremely slow in almost everything it does.


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 Post subject: Re: LURKER
PostPosted: September 18th, 2018, 12:57 pm 
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MicroJacksonMA won a Tournament 2 times.

Joined: June 27th, 2017, 10:44 pm
Posts: 251
Location: California
Starcraft II Gateway: United States
Gonna agree with Fire here. I don't think you can get under another player with the move speed it has, also it does not have quick enough attack speed to execute that well.


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