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PostPosted: April 1st, 2014, 3:36 pm 
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[CxxS] Sonoma
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     polishfish wrote:
Why remove from chat? Bc of difficulty displaying or what?

I will reduce the filesize when I get home today


mchat scales the avatars to display them, animated gif scaled that small? that would be bad lol not to mention the mchat isn't restricted to just 25, that would a bad thing lol


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PostPosted: April 1st, 2014, 3:42 pm 
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[EsYPsY] sexy.121
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Im kinda confused as to the whole point of avatar restrictions, can someone help me out.


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PostPosted: April 1st, 2014, 3:54 pm 
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     SeexySauce wrote:
Im kinda confused as to the whole point of avatar restrictions, can someone help me out.


no restrictions mean people can pretty much use whatever they want as an avatar. inappropriate images / bulky images that push the topics in too much / big file sized images that take longer for the viewer to download / not optimized images that take longer to download as well as cause stutter step when scrolling down the page.

We started out not wanting avatars to be a main focus of a thread, they can be distracting, they can even detour a conversation causing unneeded and wanted posts that don't belong in the thread thus causing more work for the moderators and more unneeded reading for the viewer, the list is rather long as to why NOT to have avatars at all, However we are trying to compromise between individuality and optimization.


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PostPosted: April 1st, 2014, 3:57 pm 
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     Sonoma wrote:
     SeexySauce wrote:
Im kinda confused as to the whole point of avatar restrictions, can someone help me out.


no restrictions mean people can pretty much use whatever they want as an avatar. inappropriate images / bulky images that push the topics in too much / big file sized images that take longer for the viewer to download / not optimized images that take longer to download as well as cause stutter step when scrolling down the page.

We started out not wanting avatars to be a main focus of a thread, they can be distracting, they can even detour a conversation causing unneeded and wanted posts that don't belong in the thread thus causing more work for the moderators and more unneeded reading for the viewer, the list is rather long as to why NOT to have avatars at all, However we are trying to compromise between individuality and optimization.

O ok thats a pretty good reason lol


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PostPosted: April 1st, 2014, 9:47 pm 
Destreyf.998

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     Sonoma wrote:
     SeexySauce wrote:
Im kinda confused as to the whole point of avatar restrictions, can someone help me out.


no restrictions mean people can pretty much use whatever they want as an avatar. inappropriate images / bulky images that push the topics in too much / big file sized images that take longer for the viewer to download / not optimized images that take longer to download as well as cause stutter step when scrolling down the page.

We started out not wanting avatars to be a main focus of a thread, they can be distracting, they can even detour a conversation causing unneeded and wanted posts that don't belong in the thread thus causing more work for the moderators and more unneeded reading for the viewer, the list is rather long as to why NOT to have avatars at all, However we are trying to compromise between individuality and optimization.


Eury, if you see this, you'll know its a classic me thing to do :)

Sonoma, i believe that restricting uploads is a good idea, but restricting content by filesize and file type? seriously? I understand your arguments, but in all honesty if an avatar is "distracting" a thread and that thread requires "moderation" due to that "distraction" it sounds to me like the subject in itself was not worth talking about.

I do not mind the restricting content by type, inappropriate content/lewd photo's/suggestive themes should be left out of the forum, they exist solely to disrupt flow, but to base it on content type, what did you do, hardcore the user's icon as a .jpg based on their user id or a database column, referencing a static/database list? If this is the case, why the jpg requirement? png has such a better quality as a lossless, and its really not much bigger (and in most cases, usually the same size unless jpg is done in medium or low quality)

GIF's... holy gif's i understand for the MA Chat, that would DESTROY some people's browsers, but a gif... you think someone's potentially 150-250k gif, is going to be disruptive/affect page loads... i don't see where the "stutter" you're talking about is on the old forums, it doesn't exist for me.

If you want to restrict it, set a file size max of 125k-150k, yes if someone loads a post with 25 UNIQUE USERS, all with 150k gif's its going to slow things down, but lets be serious, lets talk about odds, what do you think the ODDS of that happening are? Could it? yes, but i could also win the lotto right?

I have 8 years of background in Professional Website Development and Cisco Network Management, and i can appreciate someone's efforts for trying to optimize the hell (sorry if profanity isn't allowed) out of things. I have worked on platforms that handle 10,000 active users, i have contributed to several open source projects (including PHPBB2 and 3) and have developed 3 different forum platforms over the years.

If someone is browsing the forum, and they're on a slow connection, maybe you could have a small function, where you can enable "lite" mode and it disable all non "optimized" avitars (gif's, files over x size, ect) from showing, Or maybe even set lite mode by default that way only if someone OPTS to have the higher stuff they can. This would be extremely simple to implement, 2-3 hours tops, if it took longer than that then I'd say its probably being implemented wrong, Chats should NEVER show gif's, holy, that would be a terrible idea.

I understand how much optimization you're after, but in all honesty this forum doesn't load any faster than the old one for me, which points to network connection (sorry, but my network connection has never been good, 2-5megs if that). Or low end hardware, in which case, if you go off my previous recommendation it helps out much more than restricting users.

As for storage (continud below), I can tell this is being hosted on a digital ocean droplet, good on you guys for thinking about that, its an awesome way to host your server, and it provides amazing performance utilizing SSD's and top notch hardware. ( If you're wondering how i know, the servers Public IP is in the same subnet as one of my own :P )

Storage, you guys should use Amazon's S3, its free for 5GB of storage for the first year, and you get enough requests to easily handle the requirements of this forum for free, then its $0.035 per GB of storage, so if you guys control the use, its amazingly fast, always responds, and prevents the site from being held up, because its essentially acting like a CDN (Content Delivery Network).

If you want to know my current background i am a Linux Server Administrator for my own 3 companies, and i also developed the web based software that runs them, if you don't believe me on this, Toushi (KenBarroll) knows me personally and he knows I'm a very busy person :)

Sorry if this post seems long winded, i just wanted to add my 2 cents, due to my experience with forum software, people, general web development and server management i figured i might be able to give a different perspective on the matter, in all honesty i feel its being handled the best it can be in its current situation, which in my opinion is poorly thought out and executed.


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PostPosted: April 1st, 2014, 10:11 pm 
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^ what he said

Attachment:
[The extension gif has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]


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PostPosted: April 1st, 2014, 11:18 pm 
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[CxxS] Sonoma
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@Destreyf the file type (exception of .gif) isn't anything to do with file size, infact png24 is often smaller than jpg. it has to do with how the avatars are handled with the frames. (which can be removed if a decision is made).

The .gif sizes are hard to figure out because of trying to think into the future. most people are broadband or higher connections, most have decent hardware computers so even those 4mb+ monstrosities are able to be handled relatively easy by the majority desktop pc's. Mobile however is another story, even going as far as tablet. It's next to impossible to appease everyone who would ever views this site and the amount of diversity of devices that would/could view the site is beyond covering. In short my suggested file sizes and file types (not liking .gifs) are trying to allow for nothing to change when the HotS site is release which will be dramatically different than a table based theme, we're trying to go full blown responsive with additional for mobile/tablet.

storage isn't an issue on this site.

I agree with your post entirely except,
     Quote:
If you want to restrict it, set a file size max of 125k-150k, yes if someone loads a post with 25 UNIQUE USERS, all with 150k gif's its going to slow things down, but lets be serious, lets talk about odds, what do you think the ODDS of that happening are? Could it? yes, but i could also win the lotto right?


You always plan for worst case no matter the scenario. That just smart planning,
my input (suggestions when asked) is trying to think ahead.

This site had a meeting with like 7 people who were involved before it was created, your friend included who when owned the site absolutely refused to allow .gif avatars and the majority was also in favor of that. it was then constructed around the idea there would be none, now with possible exceptions on the table josin is trying to think of the best way possible to accommodate the requests for avatars while still retaining the ability to have a pleasurable experience for himself and other who dislike gif avatars that view the board.

I cannot stress this enough that I am not in charge of this issue, the only thing I have a say over is if it's something i am skillfully able to do or not. I keep getting the impression you guys think i have say over this matter and it kind of makes me reluctant to respond because I wonder if I am just fueling that lol


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PostPosted: April 1st, 2014, 11:22 pm 
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     polishfish wrote:
^ what he said

Attachment:
sam eyes.gif


This reminds me of Might and Magic VI


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 12:57 am 
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haha ragey, yah it looks like those pixelly text-box RPG conversations

josin changed his mind about forced MA-themed avatars (yay).

i dont see the problem with gifs, as long as the file size is reasonable. all the common-sense rules that would apply to jpegs/pngs would also apply to GIFs

and if you the GIFs in chat are a problem, then can't you just load the first frame...?


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 1:14 am 
Destreyf.998

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     polishfish wrote:
and if you the GIFs in chat are a problem, then can't you just load the first frame...?


@polishfish, yes this is actually possible, but it should NOT be done as its an expensive operation to do on the fly, and storage of just a frame of a gif for a seperate reference seems quite pointless, you'd be better off replacing it with a solid colored box IMO. If someone really decided to do the work, imagick makes this easy as pie to perform, but you still have to store it, and reference it on the database that it has a frame, and it gets messy fast.

@sonoma, Planning for the worst is a good idea, but with that said it can also lead to oversight or over complication where its not needed, lots of businesses operate on the "Chance" or "Odds" to complete their business (Verizon, Google, Microsoft, eBay, YouTube, ect).

Making this work for tablets is nice, but most decent tablets should handle the site fine, my Moto Xoom browses the old MA site just fine without any hiccups, we're talking one of the first Android tabs out, and its slower than poo at everything, but it handles gif's no problem (Using Chrome on Android of course). And as time goes on, devices only get more powerful, its true that the OS's will get heavier, and applications with that as they become more robust, but at the same time, their impact on the overall progress of current generation technologies and next generation technologies is mitigated simply by the advances in optimization of the platforms.


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 3:19 am 
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[CxxS] Sonoma
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You realize most of those companies you listed are actually listed within the top slowest sites of the world right? not sure if you knew that, Youtube is still ranked #1 or was at least a month ago.

There are a ton of things that can be done on both sides of the fence to make almost anything doable, not disagreeing with that one bit.

No matter how many persuasive arguments can be made, statistics that can be shown and opinions that can be voiced. This server still is controlled by the person who owns and pays for it so untill he makes his final decision post or changes what he wants, not much anyone else can do in that regard.

I however am more interested in the bigger things than the smaller ones, if josin can find someone he trusts that is willing to put the time and effort to doing little tweaks and changes like the ones you mentioned for free and it's something josin wants I am all for it.


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 8:46 am 
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If i could get a .gif of a Might and Magic VI or VII character as my avatar, I would pretty much die happy.

Image

ahhhhh, sweet memories


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 9:14 am 
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Sonoma, it sounds like your position favors load times that are consistently a fraction of a percent faster, rather than (random yet accurate number), twice as enjoyable for users.

Why don't we only allow ascii avatars and have no images ever load? That would be more optimized right?

And you're comparing the loading time of MA.info to a youtube page? I think you chose the wrong part to focus on in dest's argument...i dont know, but im guessing that youtube pages have a ton more data than MA forum pages, regardless of how many "huge" gifs the forum contains contain. His argument was the degree of uber-optimization, not equivalent data to process (which is how you took it)

If the old forum had NEVER allowed gifs, this obviously wouldn't be an issue, but thays not the case

Max filesize is a sensible requirement


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 10:11 am 
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[TryHrd] RememberMe.983
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Can i use this one?
Image


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 10:42 am 
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Read OP
Spoiler:
Josin:
NEW PLAN: (Member Upload)

Users can upload their own avatar which we can moderate or users can choose one from the gallery (which we will be adding to).

Upload Restrictions:
1) Dimensions: 100 pixels wide X 150 pixels tall
2) File Format: JPEG* (NO GIF AVATARS!)
3) Max File Size: 50kB
(No more SC/MA theme requirement)

Avatar Moderating:
I am changing my original plan of NO user uploaded Avatars in order to give you some freedom here.
Don't abuse this freedom.
Any avatar that is deemed inappropriate or obnoxious will be removed.
Repeat offenders will lose the ability to have an avatar at all.

_________________
     Josin wrote:
Thank You, for being Kind, Respectful, and Appreciative of the Devs.
We have put a lot into this game and greatly appreciate your support. [wedabest]


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 10:57 am 
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[TryHrd] RememberMe.983
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May i rephrase. Can I have this image uploaded to the misc gallery please?

Image


Last edited by MrPocky on April 10th, 2015, 10:43 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 1:10 pm 
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Thanks josin for giving in on the personal avatars

Although your warning about abuse seems strange bc avatars weren't widely being abused in the first place


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 2:09 pm 
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[FVCKIN] Immortals.448
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alright polish time for another doggie pic.


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 2:19 pm 
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Well done listening to the requests and changing your mind about avatars!
Mine is a lot nicer than them ugly archons :p


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 2:41 pm 
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LOL Verondis u so dirty. taking my pic xD


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 2:50 pm 
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Wait what, talk about dirty you thief!
I spent hours at resizing that to 100x150.
Sonoma is my witness here so remove or face the consequences [mafia]


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 2:58 pm 
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i posted a gif cropped perfectly to 100x150... just have to split it n save


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 5:10 pm 
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Lol, you know what happened here. Cant see you posted such thing here.
But since im such a nice guy im letting you have my avatar and putting in a continuation for myself.


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 5:29 pm 
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[EsYPsY] sexy.121
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Thx josin you a boss.


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PostPosted: April 2nd, 2014, 7:59 pm 
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Now we match Verondis. cute <3


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