Me and grayson just played a MA game on a very very early MA map. And it was insanely fun. It was a scrim we did on it. It reminded me of how effective counter circle use to be, how viable units use to be like fester.

Proposal:Revert MA map back to early MA tourny 3 map.

Reason: Many have died from current map, its no longer what it use to be. Anyone can see this map is dead in the sense of good MA players. However i know that reverting map to early version would bring back many good players. It would also increase activity. This would be just temporary until he LOTV MA comes out with fixed time scale.

What version exactly did you play? Post link please (right click -> copy link). I want to see this map that supposedly has a more effective counter circle.

So we should undermine all the hard work from past 4 years? Also your argument is based of the consensus of 2 individuals; kind of a small sample size don't you think?

How do we plan to contact "many" of the good players? People come and go and it has nothing do with MA itself, its just the issue of SC2 becoming irrelevant; especially with , Hearthstone and Heroes.

it's not 2 individuals tho, and no you keep blaming SC2, it may be a factor but honestly the community is just shit also we don't have constant updates anymore, JOSIN pops in once every month, and tell me the purpose of making Mythic dev no offence, there are no clear updates on LotV map other than "coming soon" , there was a HotS map which was scrapped for Lotv, there are no different game modes, we've been asking for another game mode for so long

people get bored playing the same game over and over, yes it may get competitive sometimes but it's a rare sight to see a scrim happen.

it's like playing the same song over and over again for years and hearing the occasional remix (changelog)


go check out other top 10 arcade game communities, they're huge and active.

Reading between the lines from comments made in the forums, there is work happening on the LOTV map, but that is all behind-the-scenes, thus we aren't getting updates to the current map. Usual charges of "nothing is happening" is met with retorts of "hey, be happy we have devs and they have lives outside of being devs for the map". This of course is a reasonable stance, but it's also reasonable to think that since we have developers they should be updating the map. This is at least the conclusion most folks - myself included - jumped to when Mythic was added to the dev team. 3 devs would equal updates and new work, but that does not seem the case.

The reality here is that the map is stale and full of some unfortunately broken mechanics. The ideas were implemented likely with eventual updates to balance, but those updates were never realized.

The request to rollback was probably more about a fresh feel than it was about really rolling the whole map back.

My guess as well is that the idea here is that what good is the LOTV map if there isn't a community to play on it? SC2 is not dying as fast as perhaps thought as there are plenty of players and games to have a successful sub-community. People like the game and want fresh changes.

Leddy said everything I feel. Also sc2 isn't dying. On EU they still have a huge good player base, every day they have enough to do at least 2 scrims. Last night they had 2 scrims going at the same time. Why is this? Because thomulf and raiden keep map fun and updated. I know we have tried to keep this map going, and over four years we have changed a lot. But that is exactly why we must go back to the future.

The reason a, lot of them quit is because this current map sucks, there is no counter system other then go OS. I want it back when players had to be good with units to keep them alive. And I think I speak for the majority. Also if it doesn't pan out we can always revert to current patch. So there is no risk in trying. But there is a lot to gain in trying. Lets face reality, lotv ma won't be released for another year at best. Please relic, your our only hope.

Give me the ability to publish the map, and I will make new game types

EU players are a different breed of players. You can still find active EU communities of Quake for Christ sake. As it has been said over and over and over and over again, you cannot compare EU to US in any form.

SC2 for US has been dying since it started and there are too many games that release each year now for the majority of players to stay involved with a game for longer than a year let alone the 6 years MA has been around. Hell MA could have maintained this long off the 1.0 map if the players were really that into it so using changes of the current map as any excuse for your gaming experience not being as you would like it to be and comparing it to EU is just retarded.

Comparing EU to US is a logical comparison. As to they where both the same at one point. One took a dive down in there excperienced players, the other is still at a stable community. People didnt stop playing MA because they had other things to do, or because they had life. The reason people stop playing it is lack of fun. MM RQ after elites got center shop upgs, xikar after fester bane bomb, me after you have to click cc for a hour to find the right elite upg. Stop saying sc2 is dying... its not. LOTV has brought more players in, the only diff is that EU has kept most of there good player base. While US consist of pubs and new players. You lose good players because of bad map changes, which makes them bored. Take valour and hiho for instance, hiho still plays every blue moon. But valour doesnt. They both play diablo because its what they have always liked. But there was a time MA use to be the game they liked, it use to be the game they compete to become tourny winners. I honestly believe they and others would come back, and its not to late to fix this game.

Changing map back will give this game its old self, How many people here MISS being able to go SV, how many people here miss HT having large FF, how many people here MISS having 3 banshees, or having 4 reapers. How many people miss buying a elite or hero and having it be good right out of the box? I miss when heros and elites where both very good. I miss when you werent taxed for useing more then 2 elites. How many people miss being able to go 3 BC 2 MS. How many people miss having OP warps. Or even Miss the fester having root. There are things this game has lost...and that is its uniqueness. I miss being rekt by Tamiltiger himself with his OP HB.I miss having zombie or squad mode. I miss being able to go commando with its original upgrades. I miss things being fun. Being able to open a pub with any units and enjoy myself. I dont know how we could let this game lose its touch, but we have. Relic i think you miss these things also, i think thats the reason you play EU MA is because it reminds you of the old MA.

This is not Relics fault, its just the way we all complained about nerfing things until they no longer where fun anymore. We all had a hand in changing the map to what it is today. BUT we all can help change it back to its former glory. MA use to mean something. There was a time when it was more then just a game, when the player base was high, when the map had all its units doing there jobs. MA to me use to be something that i could go to when i wanted to experiment what 3 bcs with 1 os and 2 MS would work like. When experimenting was encouraged. When players like ice, MM, HIHO,valour, kim, benwa use to all play. It was about more then just winning. I was talking to benwa and he said MA isnt fun to him anymore with the way the map is heading. Thats when i realised that the reasons we lost our player base isnt because sc2 is dying, or ma is dying. Its because of MA itself. We can change this. MA can be what it use to be. All i can do is say my part, its up to all of us to try and get MA back to its good old days.

That was beautiful baby, I shed a tear :')

Let me just weigh in here.

Everyone has made a lot of good points, and most of you are right in one way or another.

SC2 is dying, and that has caused a decrease in the number of players. It's easy to see this - the default arcade channel has only about 100 people in it, when we used to hit that many people in just the default MA channel. And this isn't a problem with only MA, it is happening with every arcade arcade game.

Raynor, I don't think you have enough experience with the EU community as you do the US - you are only looking at the positive parts of EU because you're disillusioned with US. In truth, EU has had just as much drama and players quitting as we have, but it just feels different to you, because all the players that we used to play all the time with in US (ice, mm hiho, valour, benwa, etc) that you named have stopped playing more or less.

It's fair to compare both games though - I think I've said before that EU tends to be more "fun", as the devs took it in a direction more like MA1.0 rather than changing certain paradigms of the game to make it more "fair", which is what I believe US is currently at. Personally, I would like to take LotV in a more "fun" direction while preserving the fairness of current MA, because I agree with you in that regard: current MA is not as entertaining to me, as a player, as the previous games.

Not that I'm casting aspersions on the devs or the direction that the game took - as a part of the balancing process, I thought long and hard about every decision. Believe me, it took a lot of convincing that most changes were for the good of the map. I still believe those changes were the right ones to make.

I won't lie though, I do miss older MA. But reverting the map wouldn't really help with much. We would still spend most of our time working on LotV and less balancing the old map, and whatever old players we brought in would be counterbalanced by the new players who would stop playing. If you want to play old versions of the map, just do what you've already done - get 8 players together and scrim on those versions. That's why they are still live.

As for dev activity, I can only speak for Relic and myself, who are extremely busy with schoolwork at the moment, since finals are coming up for both of us. I haven't heard much from Josin, but I know he is also busy with the new job.

Also how long before "old" map is need of serious balance changes? Now you go from current map that is almost complete, allowing more time for LOTv to a map that we had moved on from and most likely requires serious balance work....thus further delaying any attempt to complete LotV. you CAN NOT continuously change the map on the general population. WE lost most people do to constant back and forth changes. Leave it as is; deal with it and pray for LotV. You want something new then be patient and STOP asking for requests that in the long run would further delay.

It's not drama. If you feel that way then I am sorry you feel that way, and you should just ignore this thread. Lots of people want new game modes that have already been made. All I am asking for is for a older MA version to be published for 2 weeks to examine the change in everything. If the community doesn't grow, and more people don't like it, then we can always publish back other version. There is nothing lost but everything to gain.

I don't know what you mean by almost complete but I can tell you that you aren't active on this map if you think it's "almost completed". There is more balancing that people still want done. It would be easy to publish old version for people to enjoy at least for a little.

I have been in EU for a good amount of time I would like to think. And during that time I found it has lost some members, but a lot of the tourney players are still there.

I always felt this was where things turned for the worst. What people want is irrelevant, it's not their map. Make suggestions, point out bugs but don't take it upon yourself to believe you know what's balanced and what isn't over the Dev's intentional interpretation of what they want the map to be. Simply put, if you don't like the map post your suggestions and feedback but for the love of fucking Christ stop constantly complaining about it or just leave.

That might be the best post Mystic has ever written. The only thing I didn't completely agree with was the assessment of fun vs fair. To me, a fair game is infinitely more fun than an unbalanced game, and the version of MA we have right now is the most balanced version yet. There are a few units that are better than the rest, but there is nothing game-breakingly OP as I suspect there was in whatever version sexy played.

SIGH....I HAVE TO POST THIS ONCE AGAIN.

so my tl;dr ..

sc2 is dying: yes it is. Blizzard is hardly putting in the effort to make the game have a greater viewership. They will release campaign mods, but they won't do much to tournaments, they won't do much to streamers, let alone the popular ones who CAST tournaments and make a living off of streaming Blizzard games. The editor has been revered as a abysmal compared to sc1 editor... They are VERY slow when patching balance on ladder and even worst when it comes to content. (In fact latest patch was just postponed) All this adds up, the less people play because of these reasons means the less 'new' players who try MA.

revert to old map: i don't have an opinion of this cus this was way before my time. As for old things I miss, I miss op temple lots, I miss the burrow-to-fungal festor. I miss going stim marines. Even if they were extremely op, they were fun to play with.

What I WON'T be surprised is Grayson hosting a tournament based on old map... just so a select few could have advantage....

I think that our top priority should be releasing the lotv map. Reverting to an older version of the current map or patching it will discourage valuable new players that are just starting to learn the map. Don't get me wrong, there are things I don't like about the current map, but this is a simple matter of allocation of resources (including players).