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PostPosted: May 17th, 2019, 5:44 pm 
Bondbrain.693

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Statis ward are extremely op in this game. You can spam as many as you want and where ever you want with no limitation or cost and there's no equivalant counter that is as cheap and easy to use.

Already the game offers way too many chock points and force fields that can be used to block or slow down ennemy movement.

I can understand the ability to use statis ward in your own base (2 max) but that could also be included in the anti-unit tower instead of purchasing a separate unit.


You're heavely penalised in this game if you choose a melee unit.

If you don't want melee any more why don't you just remove it all together.

I think its best to remove the statis ward because it slows down and unbalances the game ALOT.

Also I think melee needs to get some type of increased attack speed and movement speed and their spawn rate also needs to be increased. (that includes reavers as well)


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PostPosted: May 18th, 2019, 5:03 pm 
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Hi Bondbrain, welcome to the forums!

Regarding stasis, I would suggest trying to trigger or destroy the wards with 1-2 units before sending a large group of units into them. Another option would be to use the diamondback's shockwave ability to destroy many wards at once from long range.

Regarding melee, I do agree that there is an inherent disadvantage due to the map layout. However, it has also been shown that melee can be viable in many situations, depending on ally/opponent playstyles and merc choices. One thing is for sure - the skillset required to play melee is quite different than the one required for ranged mercs.

Feel free to ask if you'd like tips on using specific melee units :)


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PostPosted: May 18th, 2019, 9:17 pm 
[TryHrd] RememberMe.983
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     bondbrain wrote:
Statis ward are extremely op in this game. You can spam as many as you want and where ever you want with no limitation or cost and there's no equivalant counter that is as cheap and easy to use.

Already the game offers way too many chock points and force fields that can be used to block or slow down ennemy movement.

I can understand the ability to use statis ward in your own base (2 max) but that could also be included in the anti-unit tower instead of purchasing a separate unit.


You're heavely penalised in this game if you choose a melee unit.

If you don't want melee any more why don't you just remove it all together.

I think its best to remove the statis ward because it slows down and unbalances the game ALOT.

Also I think melee needs to get some type of increased attack speed and movement speed and their spawn rate also needs to be increased. (that includes reavers as well)

I agree reavers need some help, but there's some ridiculous melee builds. Have you tried Devil dogs? I dunno if anyone wants to increase their attackspeed or move speed.

One thing that changed melee builds was marines armor pen. It basically reduced the starting armor of melee by half, so melee could never get an early advantage.


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PostPosted: May 19th, 2019, 12:15 pm 
Bondbrain.693

Joined: August 2nd, 2014, 7:59 pm
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     Akash wrote:
Hi Bondbrain, welcome to the forums!

Regarding stasis, I would suggest trying to trigger or destroy the wards with 1-2 units before sending a large group of units into them. Another option would be to use the diamondback's shockwave ability to destroy many wards at once from long range.

Regarding melee, I do agree that there is an inherent disadvantage due to the map layout. However, it has also been shown that melee can be viable in many situations, depending on ally/opponent playstyles and merc choices. One thing is for sure - the skillset required to play melee is quite different than the one required for ranged mercs.

Feel free to ask if you'd like tips on using specific melee units :)


Other than Tanklings/rines combo there's really no viable melee build at least i have not seen a guy win a match with zealots or reavers or even cracks for that matter for a long time. (Devil Dogs are not melee since they got range in their attack and are a counter to melee units.

YOu can definitly use a diamond back but by the time its ability cooldown timer is off the ennemy has the time to repopulate the whole map with stasis orbs, rendering that solution useless.

It's pretty clear that any solution againts the statis will go to the advantage of the guy using the oracle.

The game is very unbalanced as it is and that tool just gives you the opportunity to solidify your win with the cheapest and most anti-competitive way, Specially if you're already in the lead.

This game needs to have stronger melee solutions to increase the tempo. Maybe adding Blink to cracks, reavers and temple zealots would help rebalance everything. Otherwise remove the statis orbs It's literally a hack in the game.


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PostPosted: May 19th, 2019, 12:20 pm 
[TryHrd] RememberMe.983
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Stasis wards were even more broken like half a year ago. Someone found out a bug and basically killed the game for a month while everyone was abusing it.

Anyways, I think the way stasis is used is fine. It helps a defense. I think we shouldn't remove it, but balance it instead. If you think its op, i think nerfing the range would acceptable. It would still capture your melee, but not all of them.

Also another possible change, we could give stasis ward a structure tag.


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PostPosted: May 19th, 2019, 12:30 pm 
Bondbrain.693

Joined: August 2nd, 2014, 7:59 pm
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     MrPocky wrote:
     bondbrain wrote:
Statis ward are extremely op in this game. You can spam as many as you want and where ever you want with no limitation or cost and there's no equivalant counter that is as cheap and easy to use.

Already the game offers way too many chock points and force fields that can be used to block or slow down ennemy movement.

I can understand the ability to use statis ward in your own base (2 max) but that could also be included in the anti-unit tower instead of purchasing a separate unit.


You're heavely penalised in this game if you choose a melee unit.

If you don't want melee any more why don't you just remove it all together.

I think its best to remove the statis ward because it slows down and unbalances the game ALOT.

Also I think melee needs to get some type of increased attack speed and movement speed and their spawn rate also needs to be increased. (that includes reavers as well)

I agree reavers need some help, but there's some ridiculous melee builds. Have you tried Devil dogs? I dunno if anyone wants to increase their attackspeed or move speed.

One thing that changed melee builds was marines armor pen. It basically reduced the starting armor of melee by half, so melee could never get an early advantage.


Devil dogs are the only exception. They are also used as anti-melee btw.

When you're using cracks, tanklings, temple zealots, wrap zealots or reavers your only hope is to basicly try sneek attacks on the ennemy's merc base. That's basicly your only relevant income. However you're still penalised because the ennemy saves on you.

It's so easy to counter melee in this game, yet as a melee its so hard to counter people who camp with all kinds of range attacks.

As you have mentioned Devil dogs can be redicilous, and thats because they are good tanks... all the melee in this game need to be great tanks. Reavers? they need to start with 800+ HP, Tanklings? 350, Cracks? 275, Temple Zealots? 500 COmbined, Wrap Zealots 450 Combined.

It makes no sense that you basicly cannot rush effectively range units in this game.


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PostPosted: May 19th, 2019, 12:34 pm 
Bondbrain.693

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     MrPocky wrote:
Stasis wards were even more broken like half a year ago. Someone found out a bug and basically killed the game for a month while everyone was abusing it.

Anyways, I think the way stasis is used is fine. It helps a defense. I think we shouldn't remove it, but balance it instead. If you think its op, i think nerfing the range would acceptable. It would still capture your melee, but not all of them.

Also another possible change, we could give stasis ward a structure tag.


I think using it for defence is fine.

However people use it now to spam the whole map with it.

Also an oracle costs 150.... thats really cheap.... i think if you want to give the ability to spam the entire map with it it should be a more expensive investement... something like 1500. and each orb should cost money to produce.

Or like you said nerf its range and limit its usage to just in the D zone.


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PostPosted: May 21st, 2019, 11:20 pm 
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Temples are one of the best late game mercs please don’t buff them. As for stasis just limit the amount the oracles can put down to 5 each or something problem solved.


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PostPosted: May 22nd, 2019, 10:04 am 
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     bondbrain wrote:
Other than Tanklings/rines combo there's really no viable melee build at least i have not seen a guy win a match with zealots or reavers or even cracks for that matter for a long time. (Devil Dogs are not melee since they got range in their attack and are a counter to melee units.

I'll have to disagree with you on this point, sir. I've personally won scrims (games with 8 good players) using multiple different melee builds, including warp zealots (many times), temple zealots (many times), cracklings, tanklings, reavers, and devil dogs. I've even switched to beetles in a scrim once, just to snipe a planetary fortress.

The key imo is to complement your partner's merc choice - works better if your partner went air or if you counter your partner's counter.

PS: Just a sidenote - for development purposes, any merc that does not have an anti-air attack is defined as melee. Every ranged merc has 1 melee hard counter. See the spreadsheet in this thread for more info.


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PostPosted: May 22nd, 2019, 6:56 pm 
Bondbrain.693

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     Akash wrote:
     bondbrain wrote:
Other than Tanklings/rines combo there's really no viable melee build at least i have not seen a guy win a match with zealots or reavers or even cracks for that matter for a long time. (Devil Dogs are not melee since they got range in their attack and are a counter to melee units.

I'll have to disagree with you on this point, sir. I've personally won scrims (games with 8 good players) using multiple different melee builds, including warp zealots (many times), temple zealots (many times), cracklings, tanklings, reavers, and devil dogs. I've even switched to beetles in a scrim once, just to snipe a planetary fortress.

The key imo is to complement your partner's merc choice - works better if your partner went air or if you counter your partner's counter.

PS: Just a sidenote - for development purposes, any merc that does not have an anti-air attack is defined as melee. Every ranged merc has 1 melee hard counter. See the spreadsheet in this thread for more info.


I guess like the user before said... nerf down the oracle. I think limit of 2 statis would be perfect and longer time to make them too. Games are way more fun when people dont use them.

In all honesty it adds absolutly nothing to the game and it solves no problems.


You probably had alot of range support or were way ahead in the game.


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PostPosted: May 22nd, 2019, 8:06 pm 
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I think nerfing stasis would be fine, it's still a relatively new game mechanic and honestly I wasn't thinking too much about balance when I first implemented it.

My personal opinion would be to limit the total number by having it cost a lot more energy (like maybe 75% of the oracle's max energy), so it takes much longer to accumulate a large number of them. This is similar to how Raven PDD was nerfed and it seemed to work pretty well.


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PostPosted: May 23rd, 2019, 8:58 pm 
[TryHrd] RememberMe.983
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I don't think we should nerf them, just give them structure tag and have them explode when you blow base d. Makes sense imo.


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PostPosted: May 30th, 2019, 6:43 pm 
Bondbrain.693

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an you please remove them... until you find a balanced solution???

this is ridiculous they can make literally a million of them in a few moments and they are invisible too.

Its way too op, it slows down the game alot. the only counter is to do the same thing....

its honestly ridiculous.



please remove them they are way too OP


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PostPosted: May 31st, 2019, 8:35 am 
[TryHrd] RememberMe.983
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Just nerf the size, half the radius = 25% the area.

So whats your opinion on vulture mines then? They're ok cuz they deal little dmg?


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PostPosted: May 31st, 2019, 1:53 pm 
Bondbrain.693

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Look if you cant see how statis warbs can be OP. not my issue.

Lets just head into a game where everyone will be using them/

I have no issues with that


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PostPosted: May 31st, 2019, 10:46 pm 
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     bondbrain wrote:
Look if you cant see how statis warbs can be OP. not my issue.

Lets just head into a game where everyone will be using them/

I have no issues with that

I do agree that they're op. I don't know why you think i would think otherwise.

I'm suggesting a balance and you're not responding at all to my suggestions. All you've done is just cry.


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PostPosted: June 1st, 2019, 12:03 pm 
Bondbrain.693

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     MrPocky wrote:
     bondbrain wrote:
Look if you cant see how statis warbs can be OP. not my issue.

Lets just head into a game where everyone will be using them/

I have no issues with that

I do agree that they're op. I don't know why you think i would think otherwise.

I'm suggesting a balance and you're not responding at all to my suggestions. All you've done is just cry.


ur not answering the real problem that people can spam this accros the map and create a cluster fuck of statis orb where no one can engage and charge an ennemy.

even if you reduce 25% it will only mean that i will need to create more to cover the area.

For example zone defence cost 200$. A counter to that is to pay 500$.

An oracle costs 300$, it can spawn infinite ammount of warbs. What is the counter to that? A rine drop? Nah. The counter is either do the same thing or be way ahead in the game.


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PostPosted: June 3rd, 2019, 6:58 am 
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@Bondbrain - Just out of curiosity, have you tried using stasis wards yourself? If so, what have other people tried in order to counter you? If not, maybe it would be a good idea to try it against a strong player and see what they do.

I am not saying your ideas are wrong - this is just a good way to find counters, even against things which might be OP :)


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PostPosted: June 3rd, 2019, 12:43 pm 
Bondbrain.693

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I have. Usually people use range mercs or air. A statis ward is no problem for them cuz they can camp and wait or just fly around with an observer for the guys using air.

The statis ward becomes a HUGE problem for the melee mercs and any ground unit with limited range.

There's already plenty of techniques to properly counter melee units.

I think the solution would be to disable statis ward on melee units.

Statis wards make sense to counter range but definitly not melee.


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PostPosted: June 3rd, 2019, 6:44 pm 
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     bondbrain wrote:
     MrPocky wrote:
     bondbrain wrote:
Look if you cant see how statis warbs can be OP. not my issue.

Lets just head into a game where everyone will be using them/

I have no issues with that

I do agree that they're op. I don't know why you think i would think otherwise.

I'm suggesting a balance and you're not responding at all to my suggestions. All you've done is just cry.


ur not answering the real problem that people can spam this accros the map and create a cluster fuck of statis orb where no one can engage and charge an ennemy.

even if you reduce 25% it will only mean that i will need to create more to cover the area.

For example zone defence cost 200$. A counter to that is to pay 500$.

An oracle costs 300$, it can spawn infinite ammount of warbs. What is the counter to that? A rine drop? Nah. The counter is either do the same thing or be way ahead in the game.

I don't understand your comment about the price of it. HTA cost a lot of minerals, yet you can counter it with OS (300).
Similarly, oracle costs 300, stasis wards are invisible and you already spawn marines to trigger wards or kill oracle, and gain energy to scan.

Oracle (stasis wards) can be countered with a move/ hold position/ stop command and any amount of detection. You can get detection through numerous methods: scan, observer, oracle (lol), DT, festor, emp (ghost, spectre)


Are you gonna complain that HT storm or fungal just counters ranged units? i don't split, i just stand there and their spells out range me? what's the point of playing if its just raining all day on my ranged units?

This game is like rock paper scissors. If you're stuck on rock, of course you're gonna complain about paper being op and being removed from the game. I recommend you try scissors.


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PostPosted: June 3rd, 2019, 11:40 pm 
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Uhhh scissors suck use paper. Also if someone gets stasis to early in the game you’re units should be stronger making it so you can get ahead on merc ups etc... If someone gets stasis after SD just hold towers and mid who cares if they got 1000 in their base when you have have more money and can eventually just out-scale them.


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PostPosted: June 8th, 2019, 9:25 am 
Bondbrain.693

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     MrPocky wrote:
     bondbrain wrote:
     MrPocky wrote:
     bondbrain wrote:
Look if you cant see how statis warbs can be OP. not my issue.

Lets just head into a game where everyone will be using them/

I have no issues with that

I do agree that they're op. I don't know why you think i would think otherwise.

I'm suggesting a balance and you're not responding at all to my suggestions. All you've done is just cry.


ur not answering the real problem that people can spam this accros the map and create a cluster fuck of statis orb where no one can engage and charge an ennemy.

even if you reduce 25% it will only mean that i will need to create more to cover the area.

For example zone defence cost 200$. A counter to that is to pay 500$.

An oracle costs 300$, it can spawn infinite ammount of warbs. What is the counter to that? A rine drop? Nah. The counter is either do the same thing or be way ahead in the game.

I don't understand your comment about the price of it. HTA cost a lot of minerals, yet you can counter it with OS (300).
Similarly, oracle costs 300, stasis wards are invisible and you already spawn marines to trigger wards or kill oracle, and gain energy to scan.

Oracle (stasis wards) can be countered with a move/ hold position/ stop command and any amount of detection. You can get detection through numerous methods: scan, observer, oracle (lol), DT, festor, emp (ghost, spectre)


Are you gonna complain that HT storm or fungal just counters ranged units? i don't split, i just stand there and their spells out range me? what's the point of playing if its just raining all day on my ranged units?

This game is like rock paper scissors. If you're stuck on rock, of course you're gonna complain about paper being op and being removed from the game. I recommend you try scissors.



not sure you're trying to understand the problem or know enough to understand it.


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PostPosted: June 9th, 2019, 12:27 pm 
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Stasis wards aren't impossible to counter if you have decent micro
For example, you can just send a few marines or any ranged unit in fact, and shift queue attacks on each stasis ward which will kill off most of the ones not being protected.
And like you said, diamondbacks can be used too to clear out a large area of stasis wards. Though you're correct in saying it will only be a short time before they're repopulated, it's about providing that window of attack using the diamondbacks. You can clear out a large amount of them to set up for your main attack.

Nonetheless, I think stasis wards can be a fine temporary choice to defend against rushes as an alternative to anti-unit tower but does get slightly ridiculous when you're able to spam them throughout the whole map, as all they do is prolong the game as opposed to providing a tactical advantage

So my suggestion is to set a limit on them per player, thinking maybe 3 or 5? This way they will remain as a decent solution against rushes.


As far as melee units are concerned, as a player who's warranted so many nerfs to the ling/rine build, I don't see a problem with them right now lol. People have called them OP when I use them in scrims [dunno] anyway if you're trying to use melee mercs without any marine support, then it obviously won't work out as well as ranged unit composition; think about it this way: in an engagement of melee mercs vs ranged, the melee mercs will only have a few attacking at an instant, the ones who are covering the surface area of the ranged army, but the majority of the ranged units will be attacking at once. This changes when you use marines behind them and change the role of the melee mercs to tanks. If you're implying that temple zealots aren't tanky enough you should watch some endgames in high level scrims, as they're one of the most used endgame units and it's tough to kill them

If you're so inclined to use melee mercs without marines, try to go for rushes to their base, snipe merc compounds, force saviors, surround and flank, etc. there's a variety of ways to utilize them; don't go for frontal attacks as they'll probably just mow you down, unless you have a strong lead or you counter them


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PostPosted: June 12th, 2019, 2:35 pm 
Bondbrain.693

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They only become a real problem when the person is already ahead of you and decides to spam a million of them. The cost, the micro you gotta provide to counter wards that literally cost nothing is waaay too much for the effort that is required to create them.

Even 5 is too much.. 2-3 max and only the anti-unit tower can spawn them.


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PostPosted: June 13th, 2019, 9:31 am 
Gardul.1228

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My suggestion:

Change the build time to 45 seconds each statis ward and don't let the build be canceled.

That'll cut down on how many you can spam inside of a set period and make spamming them further from the back of the base much more risky because it will expose the oracle to quick sniping by an opposing army.

The net effect here is that yes, you could spam your base with stasis wards to prevent an all-in rush while you're killing another team (a problem that prolongs SD fwiw), but you'd have to plan this WELL in advance, and you can't prevent it 2x within a reasonable amount of time with a 45 second per-ward build time. Best case, you can have 4 up within 90 seconds with 2 oracles.. not exactly going to stop an all-in TBH.

Additionally, with these changes, if you can't kill the Oracle building a statis ward across the map for 45 seconds, that's not the unit's fault. That's a game already lost that had nothing to do with statis wards, so you might as well pack it up and quit.

Reasonable compromise?


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